Fairly simple tool to tell if MAX is fully installed?

[goaskmom]

I know this might get me shot or hung from my toenails from the tallest lamp post, but I'd like to throw something out there to see if it would be practical to do.

I'm new to OSC and MAX, and by no means am have I ever been confused with being a programmer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and I often have a problem with installs.

The problem is that a file or several files don't get installed or have a hiccup.

I see discussions on the board and I think "My install doesn't do that", and I look and look and look, only to find out, I was missing a file somewhere.

My question is would it be possible/practical to have a quick scan and tell you if all the files are there? Something you could run from the browser, and it would compare simply the filenames? Not a full blown file comparison, but simply the file names? Maybe the file size too?

Seems like it could be really really helpful in troubleshooting maybe 25% of the issues that come up on the board. You could simply run the scan, see that "/catalog/includes/xyz.php is missing".

I know there are other more practical ways to make the install clean, like unzipping it right on the server instead of ftp'ing the files once they have been unzipped. But, this could be a good tool that anyone could use when having problems.

I would imagine it would only work against the primary install of MAX. Once you start mod'ing your site, it would simply bring up more files or possibly not- depending if you added or deleted any files from the original install?

Or at the least, a file counter so we knew a new install should have 5 folders and 10 files in "x" directory?

Have I lost my mind? Or would something like this be useless?

[michael_s]

I don't know if it is really necessary. I think the problem with missing files is user error. Also, it would be just one more thing for a newbie to screw up.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how uploading files can be so darned complicated. Any decent FTP program will take care of it for you. You can simply look at the file queue/log to see if all files were successfully uploaded. No programming needed.

[goaskmom]

Well, I hate to tell you, but I'm using the FTP program you recommended, I've used about 5 of them total now, and what happens is they are uploading files like mad, then they stop, tell you that it's completed, and when you look at certain directories, they are missing files. So, I have to go back and ftp that whole directory again.

I have yet to have a successful FTP of the entire site and I've tried it probably well over 25 times now with 5-6 different programs over 6 months time on 1/2 dozen different computers and connections ranging from cable modems to T1's.

The file queues tell me that the file transfer was succesful every time, so that doesn't work.

The problem is that this happens to more people than just me, and if there was a simple tool we could run, then we wouldn't have to post things like "What does missing file....../php mean? because it's coming up when I try to get to the blankety blank page".

Just a thought that might help you guys who have to answer all the questions.

[Studio143]

Well, I hate to tell you, but I'm using the FTP program you recommended, I've used about 5 of them total now, and what happens is they are uploading files like mad, then they stop, tell you that it's completed, and when you look at certain directories, they are missing files. So, I have to go back and ftp that whole directory again.

I have yet to have a successful FTP of the entire site and I've tried it probably well over 25 times now with 5-6 different programs over 6 months time on 1/2 dozen different computers and connections ranging from cable modems to T1's.

The file queues tell me that the file transfer was succesful every time, so that doesn't work.

The problem is that this happens to more people than just me, and if there was a simple tool we could run, then we wouldn't have to post things like "What does missing file....../php mean? because it's coming up when I try to get to the blankety blank page".

Just a thought that might help you guys who have to answer all the questions.

If you havre tried to install well over 25 times....I would dare say it OSCMax is not the problem.

I am working on my third store and use FileZilla as ftp and I have to say I have never had a file missing from install. It's like whammo, and all the files are right where I directed them to be.

My point is, perhaps you should look into another form of ftp or perhaps it may be server error

Just my 2cents

The Aussie

[michael_s]

goaskmom, I have done well over 2000 installations of osCMax and have never once had a problem. Not a single missing file. So, I would assume that it is how you have the FTP client connecting to the server. Are you bothering to configure your FTP client? Are you using PORT or PASV connections? What does your FTP server support?

Which ftp did I recommend? FileZilla? CuteFtp? WSFTP? They all work great for me. Of course, I hardly ever use ftp to upload individual files anymore. I usually just ftp or wget the entire tar or zip file and extract it serverside. Much faster and easier...

[goaskmom]

Certainly MAX is NOT the problem, and I wouldn't dare believe it was. It's some problem with the FTP and I know that, but I also know that I don't have a clue what to change. On a recent thread, someone caused some ruffled feathers by saying this, but I totally agree, - not everyone is a computer geek who knows the level of detail many of you guys know. Knowing how to set the right port numbers or modify things like that is at the high end of computer knowledge. I've been messing with computers since the old commodore 64 that played via a tape recorder on the tv, but I have no idea what to change to make the ftp'ing work properly, nor can I find any help on the internet.

I know it's second nature to many of you, but we're not all computer wiz kids. Some of us are simply solid, computer users, and certainly, there is room for us at the OSC table, isn't there?

The easier it is for people like me, the more people who will use it, the more popular it will be, the more everyone will benefit, right?

My point was also to take a look at how many questions are asked where the answer is "You're missing a file". It's a lot of them. A tool like this would lessen that question being asked. I thought it would be useful to far more people than me, since the problem comes up a fair amount. If you're happy continuously answering that question, then okay by me.

[michael_s]

Hey I am all for anything that helps, but I really don't see it helping, especially from a support perspective. We would start seeing questions like:

Where is the file checker script?
How do I run the file checker script?
When I run the file checker script I get x errror...

Frankly, who needs it...

And we would still see all the other questions too, because people do not read the readme files included. So instead of answering the same question over and over again with 're-upload your files' we would answer 'run the filechecker script and re-upload your files'


What would be nice is an interactive installer that audits the files when run. That would be worthwhile and would require no end user intervention. When you install osCMax, it automatically checks that the files are there. I am not sure how complicated this would be but it should not be too bad to do.

[goaskmom]

Michael, I see your point, as it's just something else to ask about, but look at it from my standpoint (and people like me), that we're not well versed in php, we're not "server oriented" guys, and this is a new world for us. So, many things that we don't do or that don't happen, we don't know we didn't do, or didn't happen. And personally, I don't like to "bother" (if that's the right word) you guys who do know with simple questions. I hate asking simple questions, but many times I have no choice because I have no where else to turn, since you are the guys who know it all inside and out.

Believe me, I didn't envision a complex script to do this. Just something rather simple with a simple result.

I know it's not an issue for most of you hard core guys, but to people who can't SSH, don't know server side behavior and commands, we need a slightly different level of support. As I said, it was only a suggestion. If it's not a useful suggestion, so be it.

[michael_s]

Do not take my continued discussion as out and out rejection of the idea.

The discussion has started me thinking about the installer, and putting the file checking in there. I think file auditing is necessary, but it should not require a separate script, nor should it require any user intervention.

I have empathy for newbies. Everyone was a newbie once. I was not a php/mysql/apache/oscmax/oscommerce expert my entire life (most would say I am still not). When I first started with osCommerce, it didn't even have an installer program. You had to manually configure everything. There was no documentation either - none at all.

I had the same newbie problems that most have - how to change this, how to edit that, etc. But I took the time to learn. I bought a couple of books on php/mysql and a couple on html and linux and read them.

99% of my newbie questions, it turns out, had nothing to do with osCommerce, but rather with php, mysql and linux. I put FTP issues in the same category. They have nothing to do with osCommerce and should be elsewhere. I firmly believe if you want to use a complex and powerful tool like the internet, you should take a a few days to read up on the basics. It is amazing how far a little knowledge will take you.

Besides, haven't you ever heard the quote:

"Idiot proofing only produces more resilient idiots"

[goaskmom]

It is amazing how far a little knowledge will take you.

LOL- depends on how you read that! A would say a little knowledge has cost me $1000's of dollars to have fixed by someone with a lot of knowledge over the years Ranging from computers to cars!

I do take the time to learn, and I do have some php and linux books, but most of the people I help have a hard time opening email. That makes me a brilliant guy in their minds, but in the real world, I'm at the bottom of the list when it comes to knowledge. Sadly, the local college I live 3 blocks from teaches nothing remotely close to anything useful on the topic. If they did, I'd be taking some classes.

I'll get to a decent level sooner or later. Like you said, just takes time and effort, sometimes neither of which are in great supply.